Finally Beginning to Understand
5/18/2005
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This entry contains the exchange that gives the best perspective about being hypnotized .vs. the Mistress and Goddess stuff.
It starts with comments from Jeff the Limey after he read Tips for Success with Conventional Hypnotherapists. Earlier, Jeff had indicated in these comments that he was considering trying a UK hypnotist and it was this comment that started my thread on "Success with Vanilla Hypnotists" that got some play in the LadyJulia Yahoo group.
I added the bolds and italics to Jeff's message below.
Jeff's Differences:
My response:
It is interesting to me that my first reaction is "I've been there". I wrote an entry early on called "BDSM? No thanks" where I asserted it was not domination. (I too started to doubt myself as I wrote it.) And until recently, I was repulsed by labels such as Mistress and Goddess. I also sought just being hypnotized, that letting go, that Nirvana.
So what changed?
First, it went from being surrendered only when I made an appointment to do so to really trusting X. She wanted a level of ongoing influence and I found that to be nice because it makes surrender more of a "any time now" sort of thing and I get more samples of the feeling of it. I'm not in her control all the time, but she and I know that with just a word or two verbally or electronically and that changes.
Second was being hypnotized so often that I was ready to go beyond Nirvana. To me, Nirvana is that letting go, that suspension of decision making, that lack of an agenda or desire for one. However, from there you are a bit of a blank slate onto which something else can be temporarily superimposed. (See "Beyond Nirvana"). One possible thing to superimpose is to go from not caring what she does, having it be incidental to you that you are doing it, to actively wanting her to give you things to do and to please her somehow. All of that other stuff is still gone, but it is easier to stay there because there is this other thing occupying your attention. It gives me all I seek in Nirvana, but with even more intensity.
Third was being open in labels and actions about the transfer of control.
I have defined Mistress and Goddess rather narrowly as they apply to me. It means basically that they have and they can and will do so again. With "Mistress" it is that they have had me in nirvana. With "Goddess" it is that they have had me in this actively wanting to serve/please mode.
To me the terms are badges of specialness, an acknowledgement of our bond and their special role with me. I probably use these terms more than I normally would because it is basically a cathartic yelling out of my deepest secret. Also, from a practical matter, just calling them X, N, or B does not work as a writing style in my blog and it is nice to be able to prefix the term with something. In non blogged writings and in verbal non-tranced communications the terms are much less common.
Lets cover some of the other points:
I'm not fond of doing the chores either. However, after I woke up and thought about it for a few days, it was jaw-dropping awesome that she could do it and I had not internally complained even thought it was far from my favorite thing. That was a profound demonstration of surrender, a challenge test much more profound than not opening your eyes. As you said, "if a hyp could get me as deep as I desire to go, anything they ask me to do, may become irrelevant" -- the extended chores were a real demonstration to both of us that this had been achieved.
The kneeling and such, which really does not happen that often or for that long, is really just another confirmation that I'm gone and in their influence. It has (or had) little appeal to me when awake, but at the time it feels right, and it is certainly a "I did *that*" sort of thing to reflect back on. Note that X has addressed several therapeutic sort of issues even after the Goddess thing started.
You should not call them Mistress or Goddess unless it resonates with you. Not doing so is not a sign of disrespect and will not bother them at all. (See "Calling Somebody Mistress or Goddess".)
So to summarize it in sort of a smart-alicky way, it seems to me that what you are wanting is covered in the yellow shaded parts of the blog. I can certainly understand that as you can see that I was the same. Maybe point this out to the UK conventional hypnotist with whom you hope to be successful.
Be aware that after you've had 20+ deep guided surrenders you too may find that you are wanting some sort of next step. However, whatever our similarities so far, there is no assurance that the path you take will remain along the lines of my path. You will chose when you get there.
Best Regards
-- Deep Trancer
Jeff's Follow up:
It starts with comments from Jeff the Limey after he read Tips for Success with Conventional Hypnotherapists. Earlier, Jeff had indicated in these comments that he was considering trying a UK hypnotist and it was this comment that started my thread on "Success with Vanilla Hypnotists" that got some play in the LadyJulia Yahoo group.
I added the bolds and italics to Jeff's message below.
Jeff's Differences:
Hmm,
Very very interesting DT. You've certainly given me food for thought (like I didn't have enough already!
I still haven't spoken to [the UK hypnotist], I keep going to and then I feel I should tell her face to face, rather than over the phone. Although, for the sake of less embarrassment, over the phone would be much easier. I was thinking of referring her to the blog, but I've realized, that my needs are different. I do strongly resonate with your view of this kink more than any other and by quite some considerable distance. However there are some subtle differences, which, for some reason have become more apparent reading this post. Pretty much all of what you have suggested, I completely agree with. Particularly the part about not wanting an immediate answer. I would approach the conversation with..I don't expect a reply to what I'm going to tell you, but for the sake of my sanity and if there's any chance of our sessions being successful, then I have to tell you the absolute truth as to why I chose hypnosis as a tool to help me. Etc..
It's really interesting, I have noticed one particular difference between us. Now, what I'm about to say, is not borne out of association with the dark side of hypnosis (at least I don't think it is) I still don't see this kink of ours as "domination" I don't feel the desire to refer to the hypnotist as Goddess or Mistress, don't get me wrong, I'm happy to call them such, but it doesn't resonate with me. The WHOLE thing to me, is the actually BEING hypnotised and being IN hypnosis and the fact that I am indeed hypnotised, being proven to me. and then a huge desire to go as deep as possible and to really feel that descent into trance. As I'm writing this, I'm starting to doubt my own views, because all of that DOES sound just like "domination" It's just that the kneeling before someone, the doing the chores, it's just not for me, it doesn't have any appeal. I suppose, in reality, if a hyp could get me as deep as I desire to go, anything they ask me to do, may become irrelevant (providing I trust them of course). Am I being thick here, or does this make sense?
I would be quite happy to be able to visit fairly regularly and just to be hypnotised, experimented with (in terms of induction, deepeners etc) and just taken as deep as is possible, then to play with triggers etc and enjoy the feelings and suspension of decision making.
Like you, I continually have to make all the decisions. I have huge responsibilities in my work and home life (as wonderful as it is) where I am looked to, to make the decisions. Consequently, to be able to let go, to just be able to suspend that decision making, yes please! Also, where I really resonate with you, which seems to go completely against everything I say above (apart from in my own mind, where it makes complete sense) is in the surrendering, the thought of surrendering to a caring, loving female Hypnotist, yes, that's it for me!
Sorry about the rambling, it just goes like that sometimes.
I will of course blog when I've eventually spoken to [the UK hypnotist]. Gulp!
Cheers
Jeff
Very very interesting DT. You've certainly given me food for thought (like I didn't have enough already!
I still haven't spoken to [the UK hypnotist], I keep going to and then I feel I should tell her face to face, rather than over the phone. Although, for the sake of less embarrassment, over the phone would be much easier. I was thinking of referring her to the blog, but I've realized, that my needs are different. I do strongly resonate with your view of this kink more than any other and by quite some considerable distance. However there are some subtle differences, which, for some reason have become more apparent reading this post. Pretty much all of what you have suggested, I completely agree with. Particularly the part about not wanting an immediate answer. I would approach the conversation with..I don't expect a reply to what I'm going to tell you, but for the sake of my sanity and if there's any chance of our sessions being successful, then I have to tell you the absolute truth as to why I chose hypnosis as a tool to help me. Etc..
It's really interesting, I have noticed one particular difference between us. Now, what I'm about to say, is not borne out of association with the dark side of hypnosis (at least I don't think it is) I still don't see this kink of ours as "domination" I don't feel the desire to refer to the hypnotist as Goddess or Mistress, don't get me wrong, I'm happy to call them such, but it doesn't resonate with me. The WHOLE thing to me, is the actually BEING hypnotised and being IN hypnosis and the fact that I am indeed hypnotised, being proven to me. and then a huge desire to go as deep as possible and to really feel that descent into trance. As I'm writing this, I'm starting to doubt my own views, because all of that DOES sound just like "domination" It's just that the kneeling before someone, the doing the chores, it's just not for me, it doesn't have any appeal. I suppose, in reality, if a hyp could get me as deep as I desire to go, anything they ask me to do, may become irrelevant (providing I trust them of course). Am I being thick here, or does this make sense?
I would be quite happy to be able to visit fairly regularly and just to be hypnotised, experimented with (in terms of induction, deepeners etc) and just taken as deep as is possible, then to play with triggers etc and enjoy the feelings and suspension of decision making.
Like you, I continually have to make all the decisions. I have huge responsibilities in my work and home life (as wonderful as it is) where I am looked to, to make the decisions. Consequently, to be able to let go, to just be able to suspend that decision making, yes please! Also, where I really resonate with you, which seems to go completely against everything I say above (apart from in my own mind, where it makes complete sense) is in the surrendering, the thought of surrendering to a caring, loving female Hypnotist, yes, that's it for me!
Sorry about the rambling, it just goes like that sometimes.
I will of course blog when I've eventually spoken to [the UK hypnotist]. Gulp!
Cheers
Jeff
My response:
It is interesting to me that my first reaction is "I've been there". I wrote an entry early on called "BDSM? No thanks" where I asserted it was not domination. (I too started to doubt myself as I wrote it.) And until recently, I was repulsed by labels such as Mistress and Goddess. I also sought just being hypnotized, that letting go, that Nirvana.
So what changed?
First, it went from being surrendered only when I made an appointment to do so to really trusting X. She wanted a level of ongoing influence and I found that to be nice because it makes surrender more of a "any time now" sort of thing and I get more samples of the feeling of it. I'm not in her control all the time, but she and I know that with just a word or two verbally or electronically and that changes.
Second was being hypnotized so often that I was ready to go beyond Nirvana. To me, Nirvana is that letting go, that suspension of decision making, that lack of an agenda or desire for one. However, from there you are a bit of a blank slate onto which something else can be temporarily superimposed. (See "Beyond Nirvana"). One possible thing to superimpose is to go from not caring what she does, having it be incidental to you that you are doing it, to actively wanting her to give you things to do and to please her somehow. All of that other stuff is still gone, but it is easier to stay there because there is this other thing occupying your attention. It gives me all I seek in Nirvana, but with even more intensity.
Third was being open in labels and actions about the transfer of control.
I have defined Mistress and Goddess rather narrowly as they apply to me. It means basically that they have and they can and will do so again. With "Mistress" it is that they have had me in nirvana. With "Goddess" it is that they have had me in this actively wanting to serve/please mode.
To me the terms are badges of specialness, an acknowledgement of our bond and their special role with me. I probably use these terms more than I normally would because it is basically a cathartic yelling out of my deepest secret. Also, from a practical matter, just calling them X, N, or B does not work as a writing style in my blog and it is nice to be able to prefix the term with something. In non blogged writings and in verbal non-tranced communications the terms are much less common.
Lets cover some of the other points:
I'm not fond of doing the chores either. However, after I woke up and thought about it for a few days, it was jaw-dropping awesome that she could do it and I had not internally complained even thought it was far from my favorite thing. That was a profound demonstration of surrender, a challenge test much more profound than not opening your eyes. As you said, "if a hyp could get me as deep as I desire to go, anything they ask me to do, may become irrelevant" -- the extended chores were a real demonstration to both of us that this had been achieved.
The kneeling and such, which really does not happen that often or for that long, is really just another confirmation that I'm gone and in their influence. It has (or had) little appeal to me when awake, but at the time it feels right, and it is certainly a "I did *that*" sort of thing to reflect back on. Note that X has addressed several therapeutic sort of issues even after the Goddess thing started.
You should not call them Mistress or Goddess unless it resonates with you. Not doing so is not a sign of disrespect and will not bother them at all. (See "Calling Somebody Mistress or Goddess".)
So to summarize it in sort of a smart-alicky way, it seems to me that what you are wanting is covered in the yellow shaded parts of the blog. I can certainly understand that as you can see that I was the same. Maybe point this out to the UK conventional hypnotist with whom you hope to be successful.
Be aware that after you've had 20+ deep guided surrenders you too may find that you are wanting some sort of next step. However, whatever our similarities so far, there is no assurance that the path you take will remain along the lines of my path. You will chose when you get there.
Best Regards
-- Deep Trancer
Jeff's Follow up:
I just read your response, thanks for taking the time. WOW!! You've really hit the nail on the head, amazing. I think, after all these years, I'm finally beginning to understand, wonderful!!
Thanks mate, you are an absolute star, I've been reading your reply, nodding furiously, exclaiming loudly and listening to the penny dropping. Clang!.
Grinning like a Cheshire cat now! This is so bloody good.
Cheers
Jeff
Thanks mate, you are an absolute star, I've been reading your reply, nodding furiously, exclaiming loudly and listening to the penny dropping. Clang!.
Grinning like a Cheshire cat now! This is so bloody good.
Cheers
Jeff
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