Introducing Massage with Hypnosis -- Log 5

From X:
I've always thought that hypnosis and massage are a natural marriage. So I spoke to a friend who is a wonderful massage therapist asking if she would be interested in doing a combination for one person, and she is open. Are you?

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In this session a massage therapist, B, with no prior hypnotic exposure, was added.

Session timeline with commentary in blue
Note: I’ve decided to rack my brains trying to fill in the timeline. Maybe I’ll recall more when I reopen my notes from Friday, maybe not, but it does not matter to me. If I skipped something you want feedback on just ask and I’ll supply it.

Door
Hello to B
Talk private in room
Discussion of privacy
Standing
Buzz
(Discussed in the other journal)
Discuss clothes – B decides, keep underwear
Out door to greet h, ask if she had hypnosis experience, no
Triggered, slumped
Told to change in bathroom, given sheet
Did not pay attention to much except hooks

Sort of stumbled into bathroom, probably came almost out of trance as I had enough awareness to hang things up (or maybe this is because X had mentioned that I could use the hooks – I used the first hooks that caught my eye – I have no idea if there were other hooks in that bathroom or what the other walls in there look like, or even if it had a toilet. My images of it are a sink, mirror, some lights, those hooks, and the floor tile – the rest of the room escaped my attention. I must have still been under even if I felt awake enough to undress and hang up clothes.) As soon as I had hung up the last item the heaviness of a deeper trance overtook me. I abstractly picked up the sheet X had given me, did not see it as anything more meaningful than something she wanted me to carry, and opened the door.

Felt somewhat unsure of myself, not because I’m standing there hypnotized my underwear in front of some ladies, but because I wasn’t clear on what I was supposed to do after undressing. I was actually very … relaxed … about being semi exposed, much more so than if I had been awake, and I had no body consciousness about my paunch, posture, etc. Was probably more profoundly tranced out for being so exposed, coming to full awake from that state would have been difficult. I had a general awareness of the presence of the two of you but not so much that I bothered to note where you were – thinking back on I have no idea if you were in the other room, behind the table, directly in front or beside me, or somewhere else, the details of your presence were not included in my hypnotized limited attention.

On table face down, did not get into cradle, moved to face cradle

B starts on shoulders
X mentions new book, mind games

** my timeline of the next events is disconnected, I am not sure of timing or order **

childhood dream, reoccurring
flying
not sure if you wanted me to recall one
later it seemed as if you wanted this experience were to become as if a reoccurring childhood dream

remember time of being deepest
recalled a feeling of profound surrender to X’s influence, of letting go totally to her
I was wanting reassurance that it was ok to be that way this time
I guess I can’t fully let go without explicit awareness that somebody is there to
temporarily accept the things for which I am letting go
Sort of mentally backed away from that deepness
stairs, black lake -- deeper

waves of healing

other dream sequences, maybe used as part of deepening

Phrase “return to mind game later” caught my attention

X touching head, B touching legs, confusion as to who is who
(Discussed in the other journal)

(The above list of occurrences is pretty sparse given the time between induction and rolling over, but this is all I currently recall.)

roll over
B will tell you what to do
laughter, smile

This turned out to be a surprising easy transfer of influence
The expectation was that I would do what she said, and this is how I interpreted it, that she would tell me what to do and I would do it. I did not interpret it as limited to instructions on how to rollover, and I’d probably have been as unquestioningly compliant with whatever she said as I would have been with X’s instructions

This did not wear off much – even when sitting on table after dressing and before first awakening I’d probably have automatically complied ifshe had given direction

chair – need to examine book

• I remember receiving this suggestion but also remember that at that time I was so hypnotized/distracted that I was not paying much conscious attention to it. For example, I don’t think I remembered which book or exactly what I was supposed to do with it. (You’ll have to tell me if I got it right -- if so then those details did go in under my awareness.)
  
  I was bothered by your saying the phrase chair so many times after telling me that each time I hear it I will … . You were probably reinforcing the suggestion but it caused stress/confusion in me as to if I were to do it right then. Maybe this stress/confusion is why the memory stuck. Maybe try something like “After I let go of your head, each time I say the work chair you will …”
  

Got a new reinduction phrase, will take me back instantly to relax
don’t remember the phrase
not reinforced, stated only once
not sure if it will just relaxes or will make me hypnotized and open to suggestions

too heavy to possibly move

feel light
heavy
tiny (hands)
big

reinforcement phrases – I confirmed verbally some of them
cookies
formeremployer
comfort
new one re productivity

Heard phrase “chair” while on table
walked to bookcase and found some book

• I hesitated for a moment after hearing chair both trying to figure out if the trigger was supposed to apply this time as I was still under the trigger (a leftover from the “when does it apply” confusion) and awareness that I was draped and wondering if my standing up would offend anybody. (That I already had did not occur to me at the time.) However it was sort of like when Sharon uses the wrong reinduction phrase but some part of me decides “close enough”. Some part of me decided that it did apply and it was like slipping into trance – all other activities and trains of thought ceased and all I was thinking about was getting to the bookcase.
  
  I sometimes wonder about certain incidents if I was hypnotized or if I were just somehow playing along. I cannot tell by subjective experience but some objective measures tell me that I was responding to a hypnotic compulsion. When getting to the bookcase I did not see either of you, did not see your expressions, and did not see anything except a narrow channel covering what was between me and the first bookcase I saw. If I had been playing along somehow I think I’d have taken more time to look for other bookcases to get it right and would probably have observed the reactions of the two of you. As it is, these did not happen and I have to conclude that I was operating on some limited intelligence limited awareness automatic pilot.
  

From bookcase got dressed
sit on edge of table
felt ready for questioning
Somehow I jumped to the conclusion that B would be wanting to question me about my experiences and when I sat on the table I was preparing to open my hypnotized mind to whatever she was wanting to ask.
awake

Awakened
X mentioned a change in how I looked. I asked about it and she said that I had looked tranced and that she could video tape it for me. B said that I had looked like I was asleep.

• It is interesting that I looked like I was asleep -- maybe I was asleep – my decision making and self consciousness certainly were. However, there are not that many sleeping people that can walk, talk, see, will do what you tell them, and can have their attitudes adjusted. It is a funny paradox because the more you have me do the more your words and suggestions suppress and replace my inner dialog and the more asleep I am and the more I’m willing to do. When I’m fully involved with your words I am in a blissful Nirvana where I have no inner dialog, where I don’t care that I have no inner dialog, where I’ve suspended decision making and analysis and am just experiencing in a state of selflessness. While under, it does not matter to me if I’m responding to a dream or quacking like a duck, I just don’t much care about what I do as long as I’m fully involved in it and thus get to stay in the Nirvana.
  

I think you “chair”ed me again, but if so the details are lost to me.

B just amazed at the session
both look forward to journal


The Massage

My recollections of the message and of the hypnosis are pretty much separate from each other. I recall you, B, starting on my shoulders, many long strokes along the back, working on my neck, etc but these are not associated in memory with any of the hypnosis until a light association after the turnover. This lack of association may be because the two of you were not building any association into it such as “feel your muscles relax” or “each touch will take you deeper”.

What your touches were doing is occupying some of my attention. In the context of being deeply hypnotized this is a good thing because the effort that went into paying attention to the massage would probably have otherwise been spent analyzing what X was doing. When she wanted my attention she certainly had it but normally I have some part of me that is observing unless I have gotten very deep and basically surrendered to her direction. So even though you did not link the massage to the hypnosis, distracting my observer to be paying attention to the massage rather than to what X was doing probably caused what she was doing to go more directly in. I was more hypnotized because of the massage.

The turnover was interesting because of a bit of literalness. X told me that “B will tell you what to do” with an implication understood by me that I would do it. She probably meant it in the context of rolling over but my relaxed and hypnotized mind did not take such a narrow interpretation – I was ready to be told what to do by you, B, and was feeling prepared to do it whatever it might be. I had previously wondered how hard it would be to transfer influence over me to another person, but in that single sentence X accomplished it whether or not that is what she intended.

At this point your touches, and everything else you were doing were associated with the hypnosis because, after all, “B will tell you what to do” made you a hypnotist to me. After a few moments of your not telling me anything else to do the observer side of me realized my over literal interpretation of the statement and while I was still ready to do anything either of you told me I was laughing at myself internally and probably smiling externally.

Lessons for a team session: Link the massage to hypnosis, and have the massage person be involved in giving directions even if to a much lesser degree than the hypnotist.

Wild Idea: I heard somewhere about a technique where there is a hypnotist on each side of a person whispering separate inductions of different styles into each ear. The person is busy or overwhelmed following both and does not have much mental time for anything else and ends up either profoundly under to both or to just one. The variant that would apply to a session like we had would be to have X doing her thing while B does some sort of touch assisted progressive relaxation induction such as starting at the head but by the time she gets to the toes the person will be totally relaxed, under and compliant.

There is one thing I did not remember until Monday morning when I heard my kids counting – you did that number thing on me again! I remember it well now, or at least think I do, but it was completely outside of my awareness (e.g. forgotten) until I was reminded by this external event.

I remember it being similar to a previous time when X did this. It did not take much to make the number go away – I would have expected this to be a difficult suggestion to get implemented. When I would try to count I’d hit a block where the number belonged and as I’m struggling with that block I realize I’m hypnotized, I’d feel “hypnotized” and out of my mouth pops some suggestion fits the moment, one that that makes me feel hypnotized.

(B, X is already familiar with this but this aspect of hypnosis is probably new to you. Even when it is totally clear to any outside observer that I’m hypnotized, even when I sat down with the intention to be hypnotized, and even when I’m clearly following some hypnotically induced behavior, I am generally not aware at the time that I am hypnotized. Part of hypnosis is a narrowing of attention and in this narrowed mindset there is not room to be aware of being hypnotized unless something calls attention to it. It is basically not knowing that you are hypnotized because you are too hypnotized to notice. You might be doing whatever was suggested to you, but it does not feel strange or odd at the moment and actually feels “right” and natural whereas not doing it would feel somehow “wrong”. It may be because of this effect that I react very strongly and very positively to any suggestions that make me feel hypnotized. It is a funny self-reinforcing thing. If I am hypnotized to feel hypnotized and to want to be hypnotized then I’m expecting to be hypnotized and I become hypnotized and ready to be more deeply hypnotized. This is for me a rather powerful cycle but it is not one that would be effective on anyone who had fears or concerns over being too deeply hypnotized. Personally, I am not worried about being too deeply hypnotized – I’ve been hypnotized many times and have never had any adverse consequences from it and always benefit and for me it seems like the deeper the better.)

I don’t know what specifically I said when I popping out statements that reinforce my feeling of hypnosis but I have a general idea. An interesting thing happens with these, however. They just “hang out there” without much effect unless X somehow validates them by repeating them, rephrasing them, or saying something like “yes, deeper and deeper”. I’m looking to her for guidance and the statements don’t mean anything to me just because I said them but they become hugely meaningful when she says them or validates them. When she does validate them they are not just suggestions, they are *SUGGESTIONS*. I guess that since the thoughts just came out from me that there is no chance that I’d reject that thought so when they are repeated or validated they go in very strongly and with great effect. This can probably be used to get me profoundly deep and feeling blissful to be there.

2 Comments:

 Anonymous said...

DT,

Jeff here.
I posted a message recently, via Mistress X, about my experiences.

I've read loads more since and just wanted to thank You. The posts are fantastic. I'm learning so much more about MY experiences through YOUR experiences. As i said in my post, i sometimes find it difficult to switch off the inner dialogue. It's almost like i need proof that i am indeed "Deep under" and its only after a session that i realise how deep i was. I must hasten to add that these trances are only recordings, as i haven't managed to find a lady hypnotist in the UK who would understand, as your wonderful Mistress X does. Or have I? I do actually have an appointment booked at the end of may, with a lady hypnotist. I've reached the stage where i'm fed up with being a social leper and decided to seek help in quitting smoking. I've chatted with the Hypnotist on the phone, for quite a long time and she sounds lovely, understanding and very erudite. Shall i? Oh god, should i confess all? aaargh! Or should i just relax about it and see if the opportunity presents itself? Waddya think?

Cheers
Jeff

5/05/2005 11:44 AM  

 Deep Trancer said...

Hypnosis is funny like that, and its fun to have mistresses who give me proof of being deeply under that I can evaluate while still there.

Personalized sessions are so much nicer than recordings, that feedback and correction cycle is so valuable.

I’m on the fence about what to advise with the UK hypnotist. In person sessions are so much nicer than telephone sessions, if you are in sync. However, most conventional therapists are not at all hip to this, and even when one might be able to understand, it can take months and 12+ sessions as it did with Mistress X. It is easy to find yourself in a very awkward position and not getting what you need from the session either on the smoking or on the fetish. I’ve gotten several reports of people who have not gone to a conventional tist because they feared that their reactions would make her uncomfortable and would be unfair to her, would get them kicked out as a pervert, or both. Confessing all can be a real mess, and not confessing can be frustrating and can limit other hypnotic benefits. If you do it, you should relax about it and see if the opportunity presents itself, but don’t wait to long and don’t force it. The opportunity may well not present itself – many hypnotists will go out of their way to make sure that it doesn’t.

If you could just walk into a conventional hypnotherapist’s office, confess this fetish and have it accepted, I think everybody would have done it. There is probably a reason we do not hear many success stories from this.

Alternatively, I can put you in contact with a one of the light workers I work with who has a specialty in quitting smoking in her normal therapeutic life. You get somebody who would understand as Mistress X does and who can help you on the smoking. You would not get in-person sessions, however.

You have a basic trade between somebody who you know will understand, where you can confess all, and who will make their be hypnotic fun for you, but who is limited to phone contact, or somebody who you get to see in person but who probably will not understand or accept this interest.

Here is an idea. As far as I know, I’m the only one who has a public story of success from this route, but I’ve posted a question in both of the fdhypnovideo and LadyJulia groups and asking others what success they have had working with what some call "vanilla" hypnotists. Maybe these stories will clarify your options.

5/05/2005 3:47 PM